In this episode of Rabbit Hole of Research, hosts Joe, Nick, and Georgia are joined by special guest Ben Tanzer — author, podcaster, professor, and master of narratives that unsettle the ordinary. Together, they plunge into the speculative depths of Tanzer’s novel Orphans, exploring themes of broken futures, technological trauma, and the evolving human condition.
The conversation ranges from clones and robots replacing human labor, to the haunting promise of forced leisure in an economy without purpose. With rich references to classic sci-fi literature, Twilight Zone episodes, and philosophical quandaries about identity, dignity, and obsolescence, this episode challenges listeners to rethink the very foundation of what makes us human.
Plus: a look into Ben’s forthcoming memoir After Hours, and a surprise crossover announcement involving his podcast, This Podcast Will Change Your Life and the Rabbit Hole of Research crew.
Ben Tanzer is an Emmy‑award–winning writer, coach, creative strategist, podcaster, and lecturer with over two decades of experience helping storytellers — including authors, nonprofits, and small businesses — find their voice. His award‑winning works span genres: from the science‑fiction novel Orphans to essay collections like Lost in Space and Be Cool, the short‑story collection Upstate, the recent novel The Missing, and his memoir After Hours: Scorsese, Grief and the Grammar of Cinema. Ben also hosts the long‑running podcast This Podcast Will Change Your Life. He teaches at Lake Forest College in Chicago and is deeply involved in both the literary and creative communities. Learn more at tanzerben.com.
And don’t forget to Order: Red Line: Chicago Horror Stories Anthology featuring a new story by Joe!
The Scientist Article Featuring Joe: How Speculative Fiction Expands Scientific Horizons
It’s Science for Weirdos
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We want to Hear From You (leave a comment):
What are your favorite examples of broken futures in sci-fi?
Have you ever felt like technology was replacing something fundamentally human in your own life or work?
Future Episodes & Events
Episodes:
EP43: Animal Swarms
Releases September 3
Swarm behavior, emergent intelligence, and the biology of the collective—science communicator Josh Fisher joins us to explore the strange genius of animals that move as one.
EP44: H20MG: Lake Michigan, Life, and Everything in Between
Releases September 17
Cultural critic and writer Maud Lavin joins us to explore Lake Michigan as biome, metaphor, and muse. We dive into the intersections of ecology, identity, politics, memory, and myth.
EP45-47: Three exciting episodes planned for our October month of Horror!
Events:
Red Line: Chicago Horror Stories – Book Release Party
Joe will be reading excerpts from the new anthology Red Line: Chicago Horror Stories at the official release party. Expect eerie storytelling, a Chicago DJ set by Plastic Crimewave, and over 10 authors reading live.
Date: August 27
Time: DJ starts at 6:00 PM; readings begin at 6:30 PM
Location: Comfort Station Logan Square, 2579 N. Milwaukee Ave., Chicago
Event Link: https://www.facebook.com/events/761531809703016/
Dragon Con
Joe will appear as an Attending Professional at DragonCon in Atlanta from August 28 – September 1. Catch him on panels, in deep-dive discussions, and falling down more rabbit holes than time allows.
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Stay curious, stay speculative, stay safe, and we’ll catch you in the next rabbit hole. Love Y'all!
Show Notes & Fun facts
Ben Tanzer’s novel Orphans imagines a world where workers are cloned and discarded — but it’s really a metaphor for modern disposability.
The novel isn’t just sci-fi — it’s a critique of economic systems that treat people as interchangeable units.
The idea of ‘forced leisure’ emerged during the episode — not just as a benefit, but as a psychological burden.
What happens when no one has to work anymore… but people still crave meaning, struggle, and identity through labor?
You don’t need new dystopias — The Twilight Zone already did it.
The team refers to multiple episodes that mirror modern fears around AI, automation, and simulated lives.
Cloning in Orphans isn’t just a plot device — it’s a trauma metaphor.
The conversation explores how being cloned or replaced triggers an existential panic: If I can be replaced, do I matter?
Ben’s memoir After Hours is teased, revealing his take on grief and Scorsese — blurring the line between fiction, memory, and the media we use to process pain.
Episode Highlights:
00:00 — Welcome to the Rabbit Hole of Research
The hosts kick things off with reflections on the show’s theme and the complexity of broken futures.
00:14 — Introducing Special Guest Ben Tanzer
Author, podcaster, and professor Ben Tanzer joins the show and sets the tone for a multi-layered sci-fi discussion.
00:47 — Discussing Ben’s Book and Reading Habits
The crew digs into Orphans and Ben’s process, revealing how reading shapes his approach to speculative fiction.
01:20 — Technical Difficulties and Production Challenges
Behind the scenes chaos becomes part of the episode’s charm, reinforcing the raw, DIY nature of podcasting.
01:53 — Exploring Themes: Broken Futures, Trauma, and the Human Condition
A philosophical dive into how sci-fi allows us to examine existential dread and systems that break people.
12:47 — The Concept of Cloning and Its Implications
The discussion turns to the existential horror of being cloned, not just duplicated — but replaced.
14:36 — The Ethics and Practicalities of Cloning
They examine cloning not as sci-fi fantasy but as a real moral puzzle: who has a right to exist?
24:40 — Writing Science Fiction: Challenges and Inspirations
Ben shares his experience writing Orphans, balancing metaphor, world-building, and emotional realism.
30:58 — Balancing Realism and Creativity in Sci-Fi
The group dissects the tightrope between grounded human themes and speculative imagination.
37:27 — Navigating Provocative Statements
Ben and the hosts debate the value of bold, contrarian claims in sci-fi and critical discourse.
37:54 — Celebrity Gossip and Reactions
A brief digression that humanizes the conversation and offers some light meta-cultural commentary.
38:50 — Exploring Human Replacement in Mythology
The team references myths like the Golem and Pygmalion to ground modern fears in ancient stories.
41:21 — Science Fiction and Human Replacement
Classic sci-fi tropes are unpacked to reveal a long-standing fear: being made obsolete.
43:34 — Work, Leisure, and Human Condition
They challenge the assumption that not working is freedom — asking if meaning is tied to struggle.
52:23 — Twilight Zone and Forced Leisure
Using The Twilight Zone as a case study, they explore the psychological horror of “having it all” but losing purpose.
1:04:19 — Concluding Thoughts and Plugs
Ben hints at his upcoming memoir After Hours and invites the hosts onto This Podcast Will Change Your Life.
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