In Episode 72 of Rabbit Hole of Research, Joe, Nick, Georgia, and Mary are joined by returning guest Tera Lavoie, PhD, cell biologist, electron microscopist, and the Advanced Electron Microscopy core facility’s lab safety director. This episode kicks off the 3 episode Spider-Man Villain Series, and we’re starting where it all goes wrong, the lab.
It turns out many of Spider-Man’s villains are a catastrophic series of safety procedure failures. Some intentional and some not, but could have been avoided with proper safety training. We dig into what actually makes a safe lab, why those guardrails exist, and the very real, and sometimes very dark, history behind modern research ethics.
We also get into DIY biohackers, CRISPR self-experiments, the original Superman’s meteor rock ethics violation, prions, hantavirus, the Radium Girls, Madame Curie’s radioactive notebooks, and whether Nick can lick various elements from the periodic table.
Pre-Order: Touch of Noir 2027 Wall Calendar —
12 months of all-original art by Jim and Georgia; pre-orders open now, with mailing expected in September
Joe will be at the Slay the Lake —
June 27th 3-8pm at SoundGrowler Brewery, Tinley Park, IL (This event will will benefit LGBT Books to Prisoners & Transgender Law Center)
Check out what the RHR crew is creating:
Joe:
Named by the Guild Literary Complex as one of the 35 Writers to Watch!
Red Line: Chicago Horror Stories Anthology featuring a story by Joe!
Joe’s Sci-fi physiological thriller Novel: Will You Still Love Me If I Become Someone Else?
Joe’s Rom-Com Novella: Tomorrow May Be Too Late
Essay by Joe: From Beyond Press: Specific Knowledge: Jotham Austin, II, PhD on Transformations in Fiction
Future Events to Hang with the Crew:
Podcast Cross-Appearances
Joe on GoIndieNow: 21grams with Joe Compton talking about villains.
RHR Crew on This Podcast Will Change Your Life with Ben Tanzer
Events & Conventions:
Slay the Lake Chicago Pride Book Fest — Soundgrowler Brewing Co., Tinley Park, IL 60487 (June 27, 2026 12PM-5PM)
Shore Leave 46 — Lancaster, PA (July 10-12, 2026)
Lancaster Wyndham Resort and Convention Center
Dragon Con — Atlanta, GA (September 3-7, 2026) - Joe attending as Professional
It’s Science for Weirdos
Want to support the show? Tell your friends. Follow us on social media, Discord, share the podcast, and let us know what topics you are excited about. Leave a Comment. And for email alerts sign-up for the Substack newsletter and never miss an episode, exciting updates or the bonus images we talk about on the episodes.
We want to Hear From You (leave a comment):
Have you or would you participate in a clinical trial?
Do you think biohackers are bold pioneers pushing the boundaries of human potential, or walking lab safety violations? Where do you stand? Would you experiment on yourself?
And the question we all need answered: Would YOU lick a rock for a superpower?
Drop your thoughts in the comments. We read them all, and your ideas often shape future episodes.
Future Episodes
Three Part Spider-Man Series continues to get ready for the new MCU Spider-Man: Brand New Day
Episode 74 – Spider-Man Villain Series 2: Scorpion and the Other Chimeras
Guest: Erin C. Anthony
The crew explores the science of chimeras, genetic splicing, and what it would actually take to create Spider-Man’s most dangerous foes.
Episode 76 – Spider-Man Villain Series 3: What His Villains Reveal About Him
Guest: Comic YouTuber, Alex Hanes (@Hanes4Heroes)
The conclusion of the Spider-Man trilogy takes a step back to ask what the science of his villains tells us about Spider-Man himself.
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Show Notes & Fun facts
Books and Comics Mentioned
The Reign of the Superman (1933) — Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster’s original fanzine story, Science Fiction: The Advance Guard of Future Civilization, Issue 3
Goodnight Lab (2017)— Chris Ferrie’s book recommended by Tera as an alternative to Goodnight Moon
Guinea Pig Zero (2002)— An Anthology of the Journal for Human Research Subjects edited by Robert Helms, which documented the experiences of human medical test subjects. Mentioned by Mary
Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH (1971) — A children's science fiction/fantasy book by Robert C. O'Brien, with illustrations by Zena Bernstein. Mentioned by Mary
The Radium Girls: The Dark Story of America’s Shining Women — by Kate Moore, the true story of the Radium Girls
Films & TV Mentioned
Jurassic Park (1993)
The Fly (1986)
Outbreak (1995)
Contagion (2011)
The Stand (miniseries, mid-1990s)
28 Days Later (2002)
Pluribus (2025-)
X-Files (1993-2018)
Planet of the Apes (2011)— James Franco / John Lithgow version
Honey, I Shrunk the Kids (1989)
Gremlins (1984)
The Martian (2015)
Iron Man 3 (Extremis) (2013)
A Brother From Another Planet (1984)
Argo (2012)
Fun Facts to Impress Your Friends With:
The first Class III biosafety cabinet was built in 1943 at Fort Detrick, Maryland during World War II biological warfare research, essentially because researchers kept getting sick and needed a box to work inside.
Madame Curie’s personal notebooks, lab equipment, and clothes are still so radioactive they are stored in lead-lined boxes, and will remain dangerously radioactive for another 1,600 years due to the half-life of radium-226. But they have been recently digitized, check it out here.
The axolotl, not the lizard, is the animal Dr. Curt Connors should have studied for limb regeneration. Unlike most reptiles, axolotls can fully regenerate entire limbs.
CRISPR gene editing kits are legal to purchase with no regulatory oversight. In 2017, former NASA scientist Josiah Zayner livestreamed himself injecting a CRISPR solution at a biotech conference in an attempt to edit his own muscle growth genes.
The FDA does not regulate most nutraceuticals, meaning the vitamins and supplements on store shelves may not contain what the label says, or in the amounts listed.
The Radium Girls were female factory workers who contracted radiation poisoning from painting radium self-luminous paint onto watch dials and hands.
The Untreated Syphilis Study at Tuskegee — The U.S. Public Health Service (USPHS) Untreated Syphilis Study at Tuskegee was a study conducted between 1932 and 1972. Researchers did not collect informed consent from participants, or offer treatment, even after it was easily available.
Episode Highlights
00:00 — Basement Studio Roll Call: The full crew plus returning guest Tera Lavoie, PhD.
01:09 — Tera introduces herself: as a cell biologist, electron microscopist, and lab safety director who joked about working alongside Joe for 19 years.
03:54 — Curiosity And Lab Safety Monologue: Joe delivers the opening monologue on human curiosity, the guardrails of modern science, and a Jeff Goldblum quote.
05:41 — Spider-Man As Safety Violation: The crew breaks down how Peter Parker’s origin is itself a lab safety disaster.
09:54 — Safe Lab Basics And Rules: Tera walks through what actually makes a safe lab.
11:57 — Licking Rocks And Superman Origin: Joe talks about the original 1933 Superman story.
16:05 — Human Research Ethics Horror Stories: The crew covers the dark history behind modern research ethics including Nazi experiments, Tuskegee, Henrietta Lacks, and Project Sunshine.
21:55 — Do Safety Rules Hinder Science: Nick asks the scientists if lab safety regulations actually slow down discovery.
26:19 — Back To Spider-Man The Lizard: Dr. Curt Connors skipped animal trials and injected himself with an untested reptilian mutagen.
31:30 — DIY Biohackers Rise: Joe introduces the world of biohackers.
32:35 — CRISPR Self Experiments: Former NASA scientist Josiah Zayner livestreamed injecting himself with a CRISPR gene editing solution.
34:52 — Why IRBs Matter: Joe and Tera break down the Institutional Review Board — the ethics gatekeepers.
37:49 — Spider-Man Villain Logic: The crew compares biohackers to Spider-Man villains, smart, curious people who bypass institutional infrastructure and shortcut their way to catastrophe.
38:51 — Gene Therapy Cautionary Tales: Tera recounts the tragic story of Jesse Gelsinger.
46:25 — Biosafety Levels Explained: Joe walks through BSL-1 through BSL-4.
49:57 — BSL4 Suits And Movie Mistakes: The crew breaks down how most fictional labs are decorated like BSL-4 but operated like BSL-Zero.
52:32 — Real Lab Safety Culture: Tera and Joe share what real lab safety culture actually looks like day to day.
54:15 — Outbreaks, Hantavirus, And COVID: The crew discusses the hantavirus outbreak on a cruise ship and working with COVID in their facility during the pandemic.
56:54 — Prions And Weird Hazards: Tera explains prions — misfolded proteins that cause other proteins to misfold.
58:28 — Fictional Lab Safety Fails: From Gremlins to The Stand to Contagion, the crew runs through pop culture’s greatest lab safety disasters and the rare examples that actually got it right.
01:00:39 — Lab Bench Snack Talk: High school chemistry students melting Reese’s Pieces in beakers leads to a broader conversation about why food and drink have no place at the bench.
01:01:18 — The Stand Miniseries Pick: Mary makes a case for watching only the first episode of the mid-1990s Stand miniseries and calling it a day.
01:04:48 — Mythic Safety Fails: Joe traces fictional lab safety violations all the way back to the oldest cautionary tales in fiction.
01:06:32 — Can Nick Lick It: The crew runs through the periodic table testing which elements Nick can safely.
01:11:20 — Radium Girls: factory workers who licked their paint brushes to keep a fine tip while painting radium watch dials.
01:14:39 — Lab Safety Done Right: The X-Files is a rare example of fiction that actually handles quarantine and containment protocols with some degree of accuracy.
01:17:48 — Animal Facility Lockdowns: Joe and Tera explain why animal research facilities have become increasingly locked down and why letting research animals loose — as in 28 Days Later — is a genuine biosecurity nightmare.
01:21:04 — Curie Radioactive Legacy: How Madame Curie processed tons of pitchblende with bare hands, and the radioactive notebooks that still can’t be put on public display.
01:23:35 — Final Thoughts And Plugs: The crew wraps with a reminder that curiosity is good, peer review exists for a reason, so please be careful out there and don’t lick rocks.
“Stay curious, stay safe… Love Y’all!”
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